Page 1 IIU Case No. INTERVIEW OF: Interview Conducted by: CAPTAIN URIE SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA July 11, 2017 ******* Official Transcript of Interview Reed Jackson Watkins, LLC Court Certified Transcription Company 206.624.3005 www.rjwtranscripts.com
Page 2 1 -o0o- 2 July 11, 2017 3 4 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. We are on the record. This is an 5 intake interview with Sergeant My name is 6 Captain Eric Urie, last name is spelled U-R-I-E. 7 With me is... 8 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: Sergeant Kobashigawa, 9 K-O-B-A-S-H-I-G-A-W-A. 10 SERGEANT Sergeant. 11 CAPTAIN URIE: And today is July 11, 2017. The time, 12 according to my phone, is 09:38 hours. We're in the IIU 13 interview room. 14 Sergeant do you I permission to record this 15 interview? 16 SERGEANT You do. 17 CAPTAIN URIE: Just a couple things off of this: 18 Discussions of open internal investigations are disruptive 19 to efficient operation of the Department, hinders proper 20 investigation of complaints, are harmful to reputations, 21 fosters rumors, and may hamper the investigator's ability to 22 obtain the truth. 23 IIU expects you to fully cooperate -- or the Department 24 expects you to fully cooperate with IIU. 25 I think that's about it.
Page 3 1 Pursuant to the Public Records Act and case laws, all 2 evidence including your identity and statements may be 3 released, and for the record, a sustained case of lying to 4 IIU carries severe disciplinary consequences which will 5 normally be termination of employment. 6 Do you understand what I've just ready to you? 7 SERGEANT Yes. But I would also like to note that 8 I -- this is, kind of, in the same genre as a whistleblower 9 complaint. I'm in a situation where I -- in my opinion, I 10 was harassed for at least nine months, and I would like my 11 name to remain confidential as long as possible. 12 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 13 SERGEANT I recognize that might not stay that way 14 entirely, but I'm thinking that if someone gets my name and 15 within two weeks of the notice of investigation, that would 16 be ungood. 17 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. I received your memo from July 7, 18 2017, and you list -- it's titled "Two Issues" -- and it has 19 a couple things in it. I just wanted to follow up on some 20 questions. Let's talk a little bit, first, about the first 21 issue that's addressed in your memo. 22 SERGEANT Mm-hmm. 23 CAPTAIN URIE: Which is, if I understand correctly, 24 Officer Sonya Weaver transported an inmate to a special 25 inquiry judge proceeding, and then, apparently, posted
Page 4 1 something regarding it on Facebook; can you tell me about 2 that, please? 3 SERGEANT Well, it's, kind of, almost, an asked and 4 answered thing. The Facebook post says that she was told to 5 remain confidential. I have some personal experience with 6 that that I cannot go into, but special inquiry judges will 7 tell you that you cannot talk about this except to them and 8 except when you've been released from your -- from your, I 9 want to say, subpoena. 10 CAPTAIN URIE: Are you allowed to -- based on your 11 experience, are you even allowed to mention that you're 12 under this directive or the subpoena -- can you even say 13 that? 14 SERGEANT I'm not sure. So that's one of the 15 reasons why I'm being careful. 16 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 17 SERGEANT And when I read that -- when someone 18 showed that to me, I went -- that is just over the top, and 19 since she's a direct report to me, I felt like I had to 20 report it. 21 And it's, kind of, complicated that I just -- it's just 22 one of those -- I want to say, ethical guidelines, that it 23 should be a moral compass that we should have all built in. 24 CAPTAIN URIE: Where did you receive this post -- 25 SERGEANT It came to me in a variety of posts.
Page 5 1 People told me about it and then somebody -- and then it 2 appeared in my box. 3 CAPTAIN URIE: And do you have -- I don't see an actual 4 date when this was posted. 5 SERGEANT I want to say it was posted -- it was a 6 Seattle attorney -- I think I had mentioned him in there, I 7 can't remember what the name of the guy is -- 8 CAPTAIN URIE: Alexander Chan? 9 SERGEANT Yeah. It was mentioned in the Seattle 10 Times -- whenever that was -- I think the post went up about 11 it a day or two later, and then I was told about it, and 12 then I was given a copy of the screen shot. 13 CAPTAIN URIE: And so where did you receive this copy? 14 SERGEANT Out of my mailbox. 15 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. You don't know who put it in there? 16 SERGEANT I don't recall. I do not -- the two or 17 three people that talked about it said they didn't have 18 access to it, they just had seen it. 19 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 20 SERGEANT So I took it at face value (inaudible). 21 CAPTAIN URIE: And where did you -- how did you -- in this 22 Facebook posting, it doesn't mention any names or any cause 23 numbers or anything; how did you determine that the 24 attorney's name was Alexander Chan and that was the cause 25 number?
Page 6 1 SERGEANT By word of mouth. She had mentioned that 2 this was the attorney by -- it's third party. I mean, this 3 is all hearsay, this is one of the reasons why I'm, kind of, 4 handling it this way because I did not want to be confronted 5 with her, based on recent history. And I felt like this 6 was -- and I'm trying to be as efficient and effective as 7 possible. 8 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 9 SERGEANT Because, frankly, there haven't been that 10 many attorneys arrested out of East 1201 for corruption. 11 CAPTAIN URIE: Right. Okay. I don't think I have 12 anything else regarding the Facebook posting. 13 Do you have anything regarding this Facebook posting? 14 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: Do you know what day that appeared 15 in your mailbox? 16 SERGEANT It was over the weekend. I came back -- 17 I came back -- I think I worked on a Sunday, and that was 18 two weeks ago or something like that. 19 CAPTAIN URIE: So your mailbox on the fifth floor -- 20 SERGEANT Yeah. 21 CAPTAIN URIE: -- of the King County Corrections Facility? 22 Okay. All right. 23 SERGEANT But I had been -- people had told me 24 about it outside here -- outside of work and told me about 25 it, and I was, like -- okay, whatever. And it was just --
Page 7 1 but (inaudible) -- 2 CAPTAIN URIE: Because people outside of work that you 3 know followed Sonya Weaver? 4 SERGEANT Talk about -- talk about stuff regarding 5 the Weavers, yes. 6 CAPTAIN URIE: Are those people county employees? 7 SERGEANT Some are, some aren't. 8 CAPTAIN URIE: Who are these people? 9 SERGEANT One of them is an attorney, one of them 10 is a retiree. 11 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Let's talk about the second issue 12 here. The second issue is a petition that was submitted 13 by Sundee Berg based on your memo here. 14 SERGEANT Mm-hmm. 15 CAPTAIN URIE: August 28th, 2017, Officer Berg posted on 16 Facebook an apology to all guild members who had signed "the 17 petition." Below is a -- what's "the petition"? 18 SERGEANT "The petition" was a petition to the King 19 County Corrections Guild E-Board to not continue to pay for 20 attorneys for six people that were being sued by 21 Jerry Karstetter regarding his termination from the King 22 County Corrections Guild. 23 And there's six individuals that are separately named, 24 aside from the King County Corrections Guild, that the guild 25 provided attorneys for or is going to -- or ostensively may
Page 8 1 put -- provide attorneys for, and there was petition around 2 with 216 officers that signed that said don't -- don't do 3 that. 4 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. And so that petition -- if I 5 understand this correctly, Randy Weaver got a copy of that 6 216 petition signatures and -- 7 SERGEANT Mm-hmm. 8 CAPTAIN URIE: -- submitted that or submitted to the 9 executive board, and he or Officer Gabriel Vigil contacted 10 the people who had signed the petition? 11 SERGEANT Or at least some of them. 12 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 13 SERGEANT I had seen -- I had seen Officer Vigil 14 actually talking to Officer Craw about this at check in, 15 when she was an acting sergeant, about a week ago. And, 16 again, based on recent history and events, I -- they were 17 having a discussion, I don't know how it had started out, 18 but the fact that she'd been confronted, you know, in a 19 public spot, it gave me pause to say -- hey, look, you know, 20 this is not necessarily okay, you know. People are allowed 21 to sign petitions and be, essentially, unmolested at work. 22 CAPTAIN URIE: Do you know if Vigil brought up the issue 23 with her? 24 SERGEANT I have no clue. 25 CAPTAIN URIE: So she could have brought it up with him?
Page 9 1 SERGEANT I walked in the middle of the 2 conversation and I walked away. 3 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Is it appropriate to discuss guild 4 business at work? 5 SERGEANT To a certain extent, yes; but if there's 6 something contentious, you know -- if somebody's saying, 7 "Please, stop," you should. 8 CAPTAIN URIE: Do you know if any of the cases mentioned 9 in your memo that people had indicated to Vigil or Weaver 10 that they should stop? 11 SERGEANT I believe that's where the apology came 12 from -- that Sundee Berg posted on the member's web page -- 13 because that's where I derived that from, I mean, I, 14 literally -- that's a cut and paste from the Facebook page 15 for that. 16 CAPTAIN URIE: Do you have a screen shot of this Facebook 17 posting that we -- 18 SERGEANT No, I could. I could provide you one 19 easily. 20 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. That Sundee Berg posted? 21 SERGEANT Mm-hmm. I'd be happy to do that. 22 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. And so -- I just want to make sure I 23 understand correctly; so you're basically saying that Weaver 24 and Vigil's behavior may be a violation of the Code of 25 Conduct with regard to this petition, the signatures, and
Page 10 1 then contact from Vigil -- 2 SERGEANT And/or Weaver. 3 CAPTAIN URIE: -- and/or Weaver? Any information that 4 Weaver was contacting these people? 5 SERGEANT I believe Weaver contacted several. I 6 don't know. Beyond that, I have no idea. 7 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 8 SERGEANT Because it was a blanket apology that -- 9 and I'm just acting because Sundee Berg -- also a 10 subordinate -- was complaining about behavior to people that 11 work for me. 12 CAPTAIN URIE: Do you have any direct evidence, other than 13 the -- what you mentioned with Craw and Vigil recently, 14 where -- any direct evidence that Weaver or Vigil contacted 15 people based on the July 16th signatures? 16 SERGEANT I know -- I know it's a big deal for 17 Vigil because a couple of times, when I have not been 18 present in the office -- yeah, I know he's discuss it; I've 19 walked in the conversation, you know, while the conversation 20 was going, and it immediately became hushed after I walked 21 in. 22 CAPTAIN URIE: But do you know if these conversations -- I 23 mean, look she -- "she" being Berg -- based on your quote in 24 your memo -- 25 SERGEANT Mm-hmm.
Page 11 1 CAPTAIN URIE: -- she says that she wants to tell you -- 2 the members, I assume -- how sorry, I am if you felt 3 uncomfortable, awkward, intimidated, or harassed. 4 Do we have any reports that employees were intimidated or 5 harassed in the workplace. 6 SERGEANT I don't have any -- 7 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 8 SERGEANT -- but I'm taking that at its face value, 9 that there may have been some, and the person to ask would 10 be, probably, Officer Berg about that. 11 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 12 SERGEANT And I'm not trying -- I'm not trying to 13 be deceptive. I don't have them, but I see this, and I 14 go -- huh. 15 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 16 SERGEANT And that's broad strokes here. 17 CAPTAIN URIE: All right. Look at my notes really quick. 18 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: I just have one quick question. 19 SERGEANT Sure. 20 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: Is Weaver or Vigil one of the six 21 involved that -- 22 SERGEANT They both are. 23 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: So they're part of the petition -- 24 SERGEANT They're the direct -- the six are Sonya 25 Weaver, Randy Weaver, Gabriel Vigil, Garren Clark,
Page 12 1 Leonard Orth, and Katherine Orth. 2 And it's a highly debated issue, it is. I mean, there's 3 strong feelings both sides, and I just -- this is work, we 4 got to do work; that's, kind of, where I'm at with this. 5 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Is this issue being addressed within 6 the guild? 7 SERGEANT Yeah. It's taken it's time, though, and 8 there's a lot -- because it's taking its time, because the 9 guild is a part-time organization, there's a lot of idle 10 time for people to, you know, create hate and discontent as 11 it were. 12 CAPTAIN URIE: But also the issue of, if members are being 13 harassed based on their signature on a petition -- or 14 intimidated or felt awkward or uncomfortable -- is the guild 15 taking action regarding that? 16 SERGEANT I'm not aware of any. 17 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. And are you currently a guild 18 officer? 19 SERGEANT I am not. 20 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. You were, though, recently, weren't 21 you? 22 SERGEANT Up until about a year and a half ago, 23 yes. 24 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Let's see, I'll move onto the last 25 issue, as I understand your memo. The third issue relates
Page 13 1 to Officer Orth, who has -- Leonard Orth -- who has been 2 seen photocopying on county equipment and distributing the 3 following petition in county mailboxes; what exactly was he 4 seen photocopying? 5 SERGEANT There was at least a word document that 6 had that on it. That was -- I did not have a copy of that, 7 that was emailed to me because someone else got a copy of 8 it, and I cut and paste it and put the text in there -- and 9 again, this is -- this is a case of hearsay. 10 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 11 SERGEANT But this is the kind of stuff that has a 12 way of, kind of, blowing up in people's faces; and, hence, 13 again, I'm just in -- in good conscious, I'm just trying to 14 report this so it doesn't -- 15 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. I'm just trying to get the facts 16 clear. 17 SERGEANT I'm sorry. I'm trying to be as -- I'm 18 trying to be as factual as -- this could be -- this 19 petition, I'm sure, it was somebody copied it off and 20 scanned it and then I got a copy of it. 21 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. So you're quoting this petition, 22 here, where it says, presented by -- "Petition submitted by 23 L. Orth, author not disclosed." 24 This is you quoting that petition? 25 SERGEANT Yeah. Just what -- exactly what I got.
Page 14 1 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. And if you have an actual copy of 2 it, we would -- 3 SERGEANT I don't. It's electronic (inaudible) -- 4 CAPTAIN URIE: Oh, got you. Okay. Let's see. So you 5 didn't personally observe -- 6 SERGEANT I did not -- 7 CAPTAIN URIE: -- Officer Orth making photocopies of guild 8 petitions on county copy machines? 9 SERGEANT It was -- it was given to me as a 10 sideways that he had been doing this, and, you know -- what 11 are we going to do about this? And I'm just, like, you 12 know -- you guys need to write a report (inaudible) -- 13 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 14 SERGEANT -- I mean, there is very little I can do, 15 and that's what I'm doing is -- 16 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. But this petition was put in 17 county -- 18 SERGEANT Mailboxes, from what I understand. 19 CAPTAIN URIE: So, like, the fifth floor of the -- 20 SERGEANT The fifth floor county mailboxes. 21 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Did you get one in your mailboxes? 22 SERGEANT I did not. 23 CAPTAIN URIE: So somebody else is telling you that they 24 received one of these in their mailbox? 25 SERGEANT Yes.
Page 15 1 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Who's telling you that? 2 SERGEANT This came through the third party, 3 through the attorney again. 4 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. So third party, through the 5 attorney; but which attorney would this be? 6 SERGEANT Mr. Karstetter. 7 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. So third party. Let's see if I can 8 get this straight; so some third party is saying that they 9 -- what exactly are they saying? 10 SERGEANT They're saying that they saw Leonard Orth 11 take a petition -- 12 CAPTAIN URIE: Or they heard that Leonard Orth took a 13 petition? 14 SERGEANT Took a petition -- yeah. Either one. I 15 mean, I don't have any direct evidence here. 16 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Okay. 17 SERGEANT But there's been a fair deal of nastiness 18 that I just -- I, you know -- I'm just at that point where 19 I've had it. 20 CAPTAIN URIE: But if any guild member was making 21 photocopies for personal use or for guild business on county 22 photocopy machines that would be a violation, wouldn't it? 23 SERGEANT Yes, it would be. 24 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Let me see what else I got. Okay. 25 I don't know that I have much else.
Page 16 1 So basically, you've just heard through third parties that 2 this issue with Orth putting this stuff in mailboxes and the 3 issue, again, with Vigil and Weaver potentially contacting 4 people that have signed -- 5 SERGEANT Well, I've seen at least one contact, and 6 that's -- that's the only reason why I decided to act on 7 this one. 8 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. But you don't know if there was any 9 harassment or -- 10 SERGEANT Beforehand -- it was -- I walked in, I 11 was maybe there for 45 seconds. 12 CAPTAIN URIE: So if they were just talking about it that 13 doesn't necessarily constitute a violation? 14 SERGEANT No, it doesn't. 15 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. All right. 16 SERGEANT But when I've got -- I've got another 17 officer getting on the membership Facebook page and saying, 18 "I'm sorry that I did this." 19 I mean, I'm just, you know -- I'm taking the totality of 20 the circumstances, and I believe that it needed to be 21 reported. 22 CAPTAIN URIE: I don't -- explain that. Oh, you mean 23 the -- 24 SERGEANT Officer Berg's, you know -- "I'm sorry." 25 CAPTAIN URIE: Right. But Officer Berg doesn't say she's
Page 17 1 sorry she did it. She's -- if I understand correctly -- 2 SERGEANT She apologies for (inaudible) it. 3 CAPTAIN URIE: Yeah. 4 SERGEANT For anything that (inaudible) 5 uncomfortable -- 6 CAPTAIN URIE: Yeah. That made them feel uncomfortable or 7 awkward or whatever, but there's no report that Officer Berg 8 contacted any of these people and made them feel 9 uncomfortable or awkward? 10 SERGEANT No, not that I'm aware of now. 11 (Inaudible) I know. 12 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. All right. I think I'm good. Do 13 you have anything? 14 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: I just have a couple. 15 So who sent you the information that Orth was making the 16 photocopies? 17 SERGEANT That came through Karstetter. 18 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: Okay. And then (inaudible) -- 19 SERGEANT I'd heard -- I heard that through the 20 coconut telegraph that he'd been doing -- he was up to 21 writing a petition. As soon as the first petition came in, 22 he immediately went to work that night and did something. 23 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: And if you're not a (inaudible) or 24 a guild officer, why are you being sent this information? 25 SERGEANT Because, apparently, I'm the only one
Page 18 1 that's willing to stand up. 2 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: Okay. And going back to the first 3 issue with Weaver -- 4 SERGEANT Mm-hmm. 5 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: -- Facebook posting; you said you 6 got that information from an attorney, also? 7 SERGEANT Yeah. 8 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: You had several sources -- 9 SERGEANT I had more than one source. 10 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: And then is that attorney familiar 11 with the special rules on this type of -- 12 SERGEANT Yes, as a matter of fact he is. 13 CAPTAIN URIE: Is it the same attorney -- Mr. Karstetter? 14 SERGEANT It is Mr. Karstetter. 15 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: And then did he say that that was 16 in violation of anything or criminal (inaudible) -- 17 SERGEANT I also have a personal connection to 18 that. I -- 19 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: I'm just asking what the attorney 20 said. If, you know, (inaudible) -- 21 SERGEANT He believes that there is criminal -- 22 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: (Inaudible) -- 23 SERGEANT If you've been subpoenaed and told to not 24 talk about it by a superior court judge, I think there's 25 probably something, you know, confidentiality, that -- some
Page 19 1 rules that you're breaking there, and there's probably an 2 RCW to back it up. 3 CAPTAIN URIE: Have you ever seen one of those things 4 violated? Where, you know, one of these special inquiry 5 judge proceedings where somebody's given a subpoena or this 6 admonishment and told not to talk and somebody violates it 7 to some degree -- and I suppose there could be some argument 8 as to whether it did or didn't violate it, and then, you 9 know -- what typically happens, based on your experience in 10 something like that? 11 SERGEANT I've never seen anyone -- I've never seen 12 the result of this because I've never seen this kind of 13 behavior before, to be honest with you. I mean, let's face 14 it, you just went -- gone in and testified or you had been 15 sitting there watching somebody testify about something 16 relatively serious and relatively important, and you go 17 talking about it? 18 I mean, you -- just be quiet. I'm just -- maybe I'm over 19 extrapolating commonsense here but... 20 CAPTAIN URIE: Do you know if this Facebook posting is 21 public or if it's something that you'd have to be -- I'm not 22 an expert on Facebook but -- is it part of a group thing or 23 is it a public -- 24 SERGEANT I'm sure there's a group because somebody 25 obviously -- somebody obviously printed it off. There must
Page 20 1 be -- 2 CAPTAIN URIE: So you have to be invited to the group? 3 SERGEANT Probably. 4 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. 5 SERGEANT But be that as it may, that's still -- I 6 mean, that's kind of putting it -- there is nothing about 7 this that's secure. This is just -- I mean, it may be 8 secure for the moment, but if somebody really wants it, they 9 can get it. 10 CAPTAIN URIE: Right. All right. 11 Got anything else? 12 SERGEANT KOBASHIGAWA: No. 13 CAPTAIN URIE: Okay. Thank you very much, and if anything 14 else comes up let us know. 15 We'll be off the record at 9:59 or -- excuse me -- 9:58 16 hours. 17 (Conclusion of interview.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) 4 ) ss 5 COUNTY OF KING ) 6 Page 21 7 I, the undersigned, do hereby certify that the 8 foregoing recorded statements, hearings and/or interviews were 9 transcribed under my direction as a transcriptionist; and that 10 the transcript is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge 11 and ability; that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 12 or counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially 13 interested in its outcome. 14 15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 16 this 19th day of July, 2017. 17 18 19 20 21 Bonnie Reed, CETD 22 23 24 25