305 Palm Coast Parkway Palm Coast, Florida 32137 Mayor Jon Netts Vice Mayor William Lewis Vice Mayor Jason DeLorenzo Council Member Bill McGuire Council Member Frank Meeker Tuesday, 9:00 AM Palm Coast Community Center >Other matters of concern may be discussed as determined by City Council. >If you wish to obtain more information regarding the City Council s agenda, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 386-986-3713. >In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, persons needing assistance to participate in any of these proceedings should contact the City Clerk at 386-986-3713, at least 48 hours prior to the meeting. >City Council meetings are televised on Bright House Networks Channel 199. >All pagers and cell phones are to remain OFF while City Council is in session. A. Call to Order Mayor Netts called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m. B. Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag C. Roll Call City Clerk Virginia Smith called the roll. Council Member McGuire is excused; all other Council Members were present.. All County Commissioners were present. D. Discussion Discussion with Flagler County Board of County Commissioners relating to Transportation Impact Fees Jose Papa, City Sr. Planner gave a PowerPoint presentation to this item, which is attached to these minutes. George Hanns- Are you showing the amounts that are in the City impact fees? Ans: Mayor Netts-no this has nothing to do with what the City collected after 2004 subject to the Interlocal Agreement. Chair Revels suggested City finish their presentation before County presents. Commissioner Holland-If the Matanzas Interchange was built today, does Forest Page 1
Grove have the capacity to handle an evacuation? Ans: Mr. Papa-The restrictions are the 90 degree turns. Mayor Netts-There are two issues for an evacuation-fire and hurricane (flooding). Chair Revels-Has that ever been under water? Ans: Mayor Netts-Yes. Vice Chair McLaughlin-When? Ans: Mayor Netts-One of the hurricanes. Commissioner Holland-I live in this area and yes there is a drainage issue, so I understand what you are talking about in this area. Commissioner Peterson-If you could only do one of these, which one would it be? Ans: Mr. Landon-Palm Harbor Parkway. Commissioner Peterson-Do you have a price estimate? Ans: Mr. Landon-Yes, it is coming in the presentation. Commissioner Holland-Are you talking about mitigation to purchase the Right-of-Way or acquiring of the Right-of-Way? Ans: Mr. Papa-Mitigation for environmental impact in terms of construction of the projects. Mayor Netts-It is our understanding that the interchange itself will require impact on flood plain, that project will require mitigation as well as the Old Kings Road extension and possibly Palm Harbor. Mr. Landon-Yes, Palm Harbor also. All of these have flood plain and wetland issues. Commissioner Holland-Does that take care of all those issues with the roads? Ans: Mr. Landon-Yes, we are trying to take one project at a time.we are trying to obtain the property, which is bank owned and look at from a more comprehensive area and do it in a coordinated fashion, so that we do not piece meal it-is the proposal. Commissioner Holland- Would you have to establish a mitigation bank on it? Ans: Mr. Landon-I do not think you call it a mitigation bank. The developer already destroyed some wetlands by clearing without a permit; it is not on the consent order but it is on the Water District's radar. They are very interested in restoring it and bringing it back to life. Commissioner Holland-What is the estimated cost of the land? Ans: Mr. Papa-190 acres at $1.6million. Commissioner Holland-In your future proposed DRI's, have there been any discussions with the impact on the close proximity? Ans: Mr. Landon-Two are relying on Matanzas Parkway, the third is to a lesser extent, all those DRI's have an obligation to widen Matanzas Woods with impact fees. Mr. Coffey gave a PowerPoint presentation to this item, which is attached to these minutes. Mayor Netts-Mr. Coffey, if you say it did not say that the money had to be spent in the City, what does Appendix A say? Ans: Mr. Coffey-Appendix A-Old Kings Road-the Volusia County line to US 1, clearly in 2000 the City annexed a bunch of stuff and Seminole Woods and clearly today even Old Kings Road is not within City limits-south of 100; and some of these others too, Colbert Lane is inside City and Old Kings, Matanzas Woods Parkway, I know there was an annexation and Old Kings Road North to US 1 is still outside the City limits. CM Meeker-The money spent on the overpass- is there a percentage that will get refunded from FDOT? Ans: Mr. Coffey-No, the State is not doing those any longer. No advance funding for that. Page 2
Commissioner Holland-If the City's intention is to have that as a secondary evacuation route, clearly the right angle turns will not handle that. Chair Revels-Where is the $8 million in construction costs coming from? Ans: Mr. Coffey $5.9 milllion is coming from FDOT and the $2.1, we had to pledge as an obligation to move forward, in order to get the IJR approved we had to pledge the construction money from.. Mr. Landon-So, for clarification, the $2.1million is the City's impact fee money the County has. Mr. Coffey-It is the County impact fee money from the City district. Mayor Netts-If we are going to split hairs, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that an Interchange is shown anywhere on Appendix A. Commissioner Holland-Going back a slide, I think it is important to make this point, when they do the analysis, it's just the road impacts on a daily basis, I am talking about did they do an analysis on a scenario for an emergency evacuation, and in which this would be a secondary point for evacuation? Ans: Mr. Coffey-I know Jose showed a section of line coming up here, coming from the Hammock going all the way up there and showed another one coming up by Old Kings, the reality is if you go back, if the Board will remember the DRI closeout, we analyzed that traffic just then, it showed the folks from the Hammock when they evacuate, 90% of the traffic comes over the bridge and goes straight, while less than 10% goes North. Commissioner Holland-I understand that; I am asking if that was part of the analysis or not? Ans: Mr. Coffey-All of that was, yes. Commissioner Holland-So they analyzed the evacuation route as part of the study? Mayor Netts-I think what Commissioner Holland is asking is-i sat here during the 98 fires, and I watched traffic come to a complete standstill on Palm Harbor Parkway for 3 hours, You are suggesting that in a similar circumstance traffic will flow freely to this interchange? Ans: Mr. Coffey-I am saying that traffic may back up on Palm Coast Parkway, Palm Harbor... Mayor Netts-but you are saying it won't back up on Palm Harbor or not on Old Kings? Mr. Coffey-No, that's not what I said, I said this is normal traffic, in an emergency situation I can't tell you that traffic won't back up anywhere and without the interchange I will... Mayor Netts-You will have a hard time convincing me and the residents of Palm Cost, that new interchange, that new option won't change traffic flow. Right now, from my home, if I were to plug into my GPS- St. Augustine, it tells me the quickest most expeditious way to go is Palm Coast Parkway to I95 and up. I suspect that if this interchange were in place and the maps were updated, the GPS would tell me to go this way; I think you build it and you will see an increase in traffic and someone who tells me otherwise... Mayor Netts-Is it less likely now to get reimbursement of those pledged dollars? Ans: Mr. Coffey-Very likely we can request the funds and get the money directly by asking for it if we work together. Mayor Netts-Do you feel that if we are working together we can get DOT to fund the interchange completely? Mr. Coffey-Yes. Mayor Netts-That leaves the pledge of $2.1 million for some additional discussion. Ans: Mr. Coffey-We support your projects. We also know of some other money that will be available in 2014 that we will be able to add. CM Meeker-There are two options-a worse case scenario and a best case scenario-the worse case scenario is plug in the 2.whatever million now and make the project happen; and we do not get that money back, and the 4. whatever million is Page 3
short by that amount or we continue to forge ahead working together, hopefully getting the money back, replenish the $4.whatever million to move on. Mr. Coffey-we have two years of requesting money before the construction would begin. Commissioner Holland-The money that is pledged for the interchange is $4.2million? Mr. Coffey-$3.5 million. Commissioner Holland-Do we have to pledge any remainder funds as we go through this process? Ans: Mr. Coffey-No, we should not have to. Mr. Landon proposed (however still up to City Council)-if the County Commissioners would commit to spending the $3.2million on local roads and not the interchange and we make a consolidated effort for the City and County to work together and obtain full funding from the State for the interchange; we work together on mitigation and cut all our costs down to a minimum and the City agreed that the widening of the Matanzas interchange in the future would be the City's responsibility-then I think we just move forward; right now it is the real rub for the City that you would use the $4.2million which is now $3.2 million for the interchange. Commissioner Peterson-Would like to agree with what Mr. Landon has said but he cannot. The County has pledge to the State the $2.1million; it is a done deal it is pledged. If we withdrew that pledge and construction was slowed because the pledge was gone that it would greatly damage our (County and City's) credibility...a pledge is a pledge. Mayor Netts-A contract is a contract. Chair Revels-Wants to know how we can take $2.1, etc. and keep it as our pledge so we can get the replacement funding and make it work for the City's two road projects and accepts Mr. Landon's proposal to use that money to fund the Interchange and then the City will take over Matanzas Parkway. Mr. Landon-The way to accomplish that is timing. CM DeLorenzo-Isn't that $25million over the next 15 years? Ans: Mr. Coffey-For Matanzas Woods Parkway there is a $16million section and a $10million section but... CM DeLorenzo-$25million over a 15 year period? Mr. Coffey-15 years is your City projects to widen Old Kings Road... Mr. Landon-You are just muddying the conversation. The widening of Old Kings Road has not been one of the projects we have asked for and timing wise is associated with the interchange. Yes, that is on our radar screen and yes, that is the next local priority. What we are asking for is that the two extensions be incorporated into the interchange project and we all start working so that the two extensions and the interchange happen at the same time. The widening of Matanzas Woods and the widening of Old Kings Road is in the future and not associated with this timing issue. Mayor Netts-If we built the Palm Harbor Extension, what would be the speed limit? Ans: Mr. Landon it would remain the same (40mph). CM Meeker-Is there a way to jointly come up with a mechanism to do the interchange, the Palm Harbor Parkway cross connector and the purchase of the lands on the other side to allow for the mitigation as well as the flood plain impacts and maybe as part of that purchase do some environmental restoration as part of the same deal? Is there money in the endangered threatened lands program to purchase that property? Ans: Mr. Coffey-Not aware of any funds available. Vice Chair McLaughlin-How much does the City have to contribute to the partnership? Ans: Mr. Landon-The impact fee is in the negative column. We were counting on the $4.2 million to come back to the City from the County. Page 4
CM Meeker-Is it premature to make any decisions today until we know what DOT is doing? Ans: Mr. Landon-That is our proposal, we need to have some commitment from the County, believes this could happen, as long as we work together. Commissioner Holland-believes this is very possible as well. DOT likes when you bring solutions. Chair Revels-Should we find we cannot get it replaced and we have to keep our $2.1million pledge; we will keep our pledge. VM Lewis-The 4.2 is off table, are we talking about the 2.1? Ans: Mr. Landon-we are asking that some of the 4.2 is used to purchase some of the property needed. Mr. Coffey-We have 1.2 for your use. CM Meeker- Is there a timing issue on any of this? Ans: Mr. Coffey-Yes. VM Lewis-The proposal by Mr. Landon- is there anything in it that you cannot agree to? Ans: Ms. Revels-He cannot agree to anything. Mr. Coffey-just talking-wants to take the easy road and work together. Chair Revels-sounds like there is a consensus for the administrators, their staff and possibly representative to meet with FDOT to see how we can get our 2.1 replaced. Commissioner Holland-suggested going to DOT in a united front with a comprehensive proposal. Vice Chair McLaughlin-Does the City plan on taking over Matanzas Woods Parkway? Mr. Coffey-planning on turning over Matanzas Woods Parkway at the completion of the Interchange. Mr. Landon clarified once the $4.2 million is spent the Interlocal is a moot point; there is no need to enter another Interlocal Agreement. E. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 10:56am Respectfully submitted, Virginia Smith, City Clerk 12-619 ATTACHMENTS TO MINUTES Attachments: City-County Impact Fees County presentation Page 5